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Topic: First HF radio & Station Building
VA6TAC
Member
Posts: 12
First HF radio & Station Building
on: January 1, 2012, 18:53

Greetings all!


As one of the newer Hams on the block hihi you can imagine I have a lot of questions – but I'll try to make this somewhat concise. No this isn't a "what radio should I buy question" – I'm aware I have to decide that.


The main question: I'm looking for any feedback on 3 specific radios: Yaesu FT-450D or FT-950, and Icom IC-718 as "HF station starter" rigs. i.e do any of you out there actually run them?

The secondary question: open to being told I'm missing another good choice :)


Background:


    Exclusions/inclusions: Note I'm not interested in SDR at this time. Yes I would consider kit like K2. No I don't want another mobile or HT. i.e looking for a radio for the house.

    Budget: I will likely have to limit my "shacks" first HF radio to around $1,500 – and that includes power supply, and anything mandatory to get on the air like antenna tuner / Balun. The Antenna itself we'll allocate a separate budget for. Sorry, no FTDX-9000's for me ;) I've saved about 50% of my above budget. See next point.

    Timeline: between 6 to 12 months away – but I'm researching now.

    Resources I've checked: eHam reviews (getting of course, a lot of contradictory info), and I'm aware that ARRL did a review of the FT-450D in Nov 2011 – just have to get my hands on it. Not sure I'll understand all of it though.

    Used VS new? I've struggled with this one a lot; but I'm 90% sure I'd like my first rig to be new with warranty; at least that way I have a pretty good chance of a trouble-free start. I do have a used Yaesu 2m in truck & that is/was a great experience (thanks VE6CIA). But I know I'm not ready to troubleshoot & repair on my own yet. Down the road I'm very open to adding used items – but again, having at least one reliable radio is pretty important to me.

So now that you have some parameters to gauge my question, I'm hoping to hear any & all comments or opinions. I value your feedback! I'm hoping this can maybe also serve as a useful thread for others with similar questions..


Thanks

Geoff

VA6TAC

The box said ‘You need Windows 7 or better’ …. so I installed Linux
OMISS #8559#
VA6TAC
Member
Posts: 12
Update Jan 13
on: January 13, 2012, 20:36

Well folks: some decisions have been made!


Status of Shack as of Today:


There is no shack! But this is what is pending or already here:

I have some woodworking ideas to build a custom wall-mount cabinet for all of this:


1.) HF Transceiver: Yaesu FT-450D ordered from NTF Calgary; delivery in ~ 4 weeks?

2.) Power supply: Alinco DM 330-MV (picked up & using on SWL radio already)

3.) Power distribution: RigRunner 4008C DC distribution panel + pack of 30 Amp Anderson Power Poles to connect it all (ordered)

4.) Antenna: Hygain Dx-88 vertical + Copperweld GRK ground radial system that I soooo look forward to installing :/ (ordered)

5.) Antenna tuner (CAT) LDG YT-450 designed for the FT-450D (ordered)

6.) Current antenna: haha a random length of copper wire from 2nd story to end of yard. connected to….

7.) SWL rig: Heathkit SW7800 receiver.


Items to get are:

* 3 x 10' x 5/8" copper-clad grounding rods (Westburne electric for next 3 items)

* 6 Gauge Copper wire (about 75 meters of it)

* Copper ground clamps for above rods

* Coax…. I'm thinking LMR-400? what do you guys/gals think of that coax?


Geoff

VA6TAC

The box said ‘You need Windows 7 or better’ …. so I installed Linux
OMISS #8559#
VA6TAC
Member
Posts: 12
Update #2
on: February 3, 2012, 00:31

Just another update on progress. I hope these will be of some value to other new comers to ham radio.


So the HF rig has arrived (Yaesu FT-450D). After spending 1 week with it, I love it! Simplicity in use, yet enough features including DSP, two VFO's and CAT software make it fun. It even comes with a CW training mode so I can learn to pound keys… I can't notice the "hum" issue that the reviews on eHAM talk about; but then again I'm not "live" yet so we'll see when Spring comes.


LDG auto-tuner has made it possible to take (I'm not kidding) a random length of 20 gauge copper craft-store wire run atop my vinyl fence, and this allows use the above radio for SWL, and some limited Tx. Have worked a few QSO's in Oregon – seems to work well there. They laugh about my antenna, but then remind me I sound fine for $10.00 spent so I shouldn't be too worried.


Grounding work well under way. Maybe with this unusual warm winter I can get those rods pounded in sooner than I expected. Yeah right who am I kidding.


Real antenna: DX-88 on order (special order item from RadioWorld) – won't be here till end of Feb / early March.; and of course not up til April/May. In interim, think I'll learn how to build a dipole or a G5RV; maybe will find something at SARA flea market this weekend.


DC power distribution via Anderson PowerPoles & a RIGrunner 4008. Seems to work well. I have the crimp tool if anyone needs to borrow it.


So that's all for now. I guess this has turned into a blog; but I really did want to invite discussion….


Geoff

VA6TAC

The box said ‘You need Windows 7 or better’ …. so I installed Linux
OMISS #8559#
VA6GMC
Member
Posts: 5
Re: First HF radio & Station Building
on: February 6, 2012, 19:58

Thanks for the info and the "blog"; hard to get any traffic on here to chime in…I believe it will really add to the experience when it does click.

After your statement of the Rigrunner, I looked it up and thought it looks like a good investment. I was going to make one, but that is reasonably priced and will be a good addition to the shack. No, not ordered yet, probably buy one when I get a shopping list together for the spring.

Thanks again Geoff for the posts.

Greg

73
VA6TAC
Member
Posts: 12
Re: First HF radio & Station Building
on: February 7, 2012, 13:25

Thanks Greg.


For sure, if you get a RIGrunner, don't buy your own crimp tool. I have the real deal from West Mountain Radio (ratcheting, ++ heavy duty) that will crimp all three sizes of Anderson Power poles up to 45 amp size. That's the kind of thing I'd happily lend out.


73


Geoff

The box said ‘You need Windows 7 or better’ …. so I installed Linux
OMISS #8559#
VA6TAC
Member
Posts: 12
Re: First HF radio & Station Building update #3
on: February 17, 2012, 02:22

HF: no news, except LDG balun 4:1 & UNUN 1:1 arrived this week, for experimenting with. No dipoles or DX-88 yet…. i.e. I'm Rx mode only, no Tx


VHF: as you all know by now, have an Alinco HT 2m only portable; from SARA flea market

I also, thanks to Jack & Gerhard have excellent detailed plains for building a 2m (or 2m + 70 cm) J-pole "copper cactus" which will be doing shortly, & mounting at peak of tallest point on my two storey house <gulp>. Did I mention how much I like heights?.


UHF: now looking for a base station dual bander, so can use above antenna to full coverage…


ECHOLINK: I'm registered & live; let me know if want to make a sched, as I have to boot out out of Linux & into Windows to use it. Hate the iPhone version.


Other modes (Packet, RTTY, PSK31) – really need some help here understanding what I need to do. Have dedicated PC in shack.


That's all for now folks!


73


Geoff

VA6TAC

The box said ‘You need Windows 7 or better’ …. so I installed Linux
OMISS #8559#
VA6AK
Member
Posts: 3
Re: First HF radio & Station Building
on: February 20, 2012, 21:53

Hi Geoff;


Some thoughts from my humble shack;


Regarding cable, I think LRM400 is more expensive than RG 213. Rg-213 is fine for HF work and lasts for years and years. For your cable and assemblies I suggest crimp on connectors of high quality.

This link "http://www.orcadxcc.org/content/crimp_rg213_VE7BZ_1.pdf&quot; is very informative, as well as

"http://www.bcdxc.org/pl259_crimp_on_connectors.htm&quot;.


Another consideration is grounding your station properly. Links for this information are;

"http://www.eham.net/articles/1603&quot;

"http://www.qsl.net/yb0emj/ground.html&quot;

You cannot use solder connections for your ground system but need crimp on lugs for 6 gauge or larger wire.


I have crimp on tools for Coax as well as a hydraulic crimp tool for your ground connections which I will lend to you if needed.


As far as an HF station, it really depends on what you want to accomplish with HF. If you are interested in chasing DX it can be done with a vertical antenna and a power amplifier but is quite difficult. See Jerry Hohn, VE6LB " http://www.telusplanet.net/public/telwest/ve6lb.htm " He has obviously done very well with a vertical. When I first started in amateur radio I used a vertical for a few years and when conditions are real good, many dx contacts can be made. If you are more serious about HF DX, than a tower and beam of some type is the only way to go. This can be done very inexpensively as well with a small beam and a 30 foot tower that only needs to be anchored to your house eves, not requiring a cement base. I had this system myself until three years ago (worked in excess of 250 countries) when I put up a higher tower and last year added a SteppIr.


Regards


Neil VA6AK
VA6TAC
Member
Posts: 12
Re: First HF radio & Station Building
on: February 22, 2012, 03:28

Neil!


Thanks for reading my post!


So… why no solder? I'm guessing the intense heat of a lightning strike will melt it, right?


But I soldered my 6 gauge from the rigs to the 3/4" copper pipe in the shack… was that a bad idea? I assumed crimping / clamps was for OUTSIDE.


re: cable: Hey, you guys tell me what is good. Local store (Communications group) is helpful, but might "oversell" :) I guess losses are worse as VHF than HF, right? Very pretty girl behind parts counter is … well… obviously not a ham haha


re: grounding – awesome links, man! thanks – younger hams like me need this info. Gotta find me more "Elmers" like Gerhard & Jack & Gary & Bob who actually reply to my questions. Ignoring new hams doesn't help the next gen. I'm not an EE so I appreciate advice A LOT!


This spring I'll be pounding 10 foot ground rods all over the dang yard, so yes I'd take you up on that crimp tool offer. Same goes in reverse – if you want Power Poles, I have the tool for that crimping.


Dude if I could put up a tower it'd be up in a heartbeat. Not gonna happen though. So going Stealth with (haha "stealth") with a 25 foot tall pole i.e. vertical + dipoles + VHF/UHF J-poles. So I'll settle for the good low-angle radiation pattern of a vertical, and a dedicated wire once you all advise me which band that would be best to build. Yes I have a good antenna tuner. Think I'll put a little flag on top. then it's a flag-pole, right?


Thanks SO MUCH for feedback & links!! keep them coming folks! Lets make this a thread for all new hams with B+!!


Geoff

The box said ‘You need Windows 7 or better’ …. so I installed Linux
OMISS #8559#
VA6AK
Member
Posts: 3
Re: First HF radio & Station Building
on: February 22, 2012, 16:01

Hi;


I am not an expert on anything but my research indicates that solder is a bad idea for any type of lightning ground system. I think you are right with the melt theory causing your ground system to disappear before the lightning strike's energy has dissipated. As for the copper pipe used as a bus system, copper clamps can be bought at Home Depot and they work great. I also have a power pole crimp tool. If you decide to go with crimp on connectors for your coax, I have a tool for that as well.

Ground radials are much more important for the vertical than ground rods, Ground rods for your whole system is very important as you know.

I think I bought my cable last summer from "http://www.macfarlaneelectronics.on.ca/&quot; 95c per foot.

I think you are saying that you will put up a wire antenna for some HF bands? That being the case you could put up wire dipoles covering a few bands.


73


Neil VA6AK
VA6AK
Member
Posts: 3
Re: First HF radio & Station Building
on: February 22, 2012, 19:42

Hi Geoff;


I responded earlier today but my bits and bytes obviously were lost in the digital wasteland somewhere. I will try again.


I am no expert but my research indicates that the solder will break down (melt) before the ground system has a chance to dissipate the energy from a lightning or near lightning strike.


I would replace your soldered connections for your 6 gauge wire with copper ground clamps that can be bought at Home depot.


I bought my most recent RG-213 from "http://www.macfarlaneelectronics.on.ca/&quot; at 95 cents a foot. Shipping was only a few bucks by canada post. If you decide to use crimp connectors for your coax, I have a good quality crimp tool that you can borrow as well.


Good ground rods are important for your station but ground radials are pretty much a must for your vertical, the more the better.


If you are going to put up a dipole for HF as well as your vertical you can do a multband dipole arrangement as eg; " http://www.hamuniverse.com/multidipole.html&quot; Some care has to be taken as certain bands obviously cannot use the same feedline depending on harmonics etc. I think for sure you want to have 20 meters, other bands would be to your preference, 10 meters when it is open is great.


Regards


Neil VA6AK
VA6TAC
Member
Posts: 12
Re: First HF radio & Station Building
on: March 2, 2012, 06:28

Thanks for replying & all the info. The nice thing, is when people like you share, *all* the new hams benefit, not just me.


My (I'm going to call myself in the "younger" generation) are very forum savvy; and we use search to find sites like this. I really, really appreciate you taking the time to share.


My updates as of March 1st:


    RadioWorld notified me my HyGain Dx-88 vertical is on it's way !!! :)

    I learned how to link repeaters using DTMF codes & created my own mini net. Unfortunately, due to an error on the SARA website saying a net didn't start till 8:30, it was right during the "new ham" net tonight <face palm> I see SARA fixed their website pronto haha

The box said ‘You need Windows 7 or better’ …. so I installed Linux
OMISS #8559#
ve6cia
Member
Posts: 3
Re: First HF radio & Station Building
on: March 20, 2012, 15:29

Goeff. Consider looking at the FT857D http://radioworld.ca/amateur-hf-radios-ft-857d-p-46.html


One of the nicest radios to use on the market today.


…Garry


Quote from VA6TAC on January 1, 2012, 18:53

Greetings all!


As one of the newer Hams on the block hihi you can imagine I have a lot of questions – but I'll try to make this somewhat concise. No this isn't a "what radio should I buy question" – I'm aware I have to decide that.


The main question: I'm looking for any feedback on 3 specific radios: Yaesu FT-450D or FT-950, and Icom IC-718 as "HF station starter" rigs. i.e do any of you out there actually run them?

The secondary question: open to being told I'm missing another good choice :)


Background:


    Exclusions/inclusions: Note I'm not interested in SDR at this time. Yes I would consider kit like K2. No I don't want another mobile or HT. i.e looking for a radio for the house.

    Budget: I will likely have to limit my "shacks" first HF radio to around $1,500 – and that includes power supply, and anything mandatory to get on the air like antenna tuner / Balun. The Antenna itself we'll allocate a separate budget for. Sorry, no FTDX-9000's for me ;) I've saved about 50% of my above budget. See next point.

    Timeline: between 6 to 12 months away – but I'm researching now.

    Resources I've checked: eHam reviews (getting of course, a lot of contradictory info), and I'm aware that ARRL did a review of the FT-450D in Nov 2011 – just have to get my hands on it. Not sure I'll understand all of it though.

    Used VS new? I've struggled with this one a lot; but I'm 90% sure I'd like my first rig to be new with warranty; at least that way I have a pretty good chance of a trouble-free start. I do have a used Yaesu 2m in truck & that is/was a great experience (thanks VE6CIA). But I know I'm not ready to troubleshoot & repair on my own yet. Down the road I'm very open to adding used items – but again, having at least one reliable radio is pretty important to me.

So now that you have some parameters to gauge my question, I'm hoping to hear any & all comments or opinions. I value your feedback! I'm hoping this can maybe also serve as a useful thread for others with similar questions..


Thanks

Geoff

VA6TAC
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